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Post by Mur on Jan 10, 2012 13:21:10 GMT -7
Before it was Dood, it was everyone else. Pick your favorite person to blame is the name of the game? I don't believe assigning blame is required....many had a hand in the failure. There are many issues that contributed to the demise. The question going forward is what kind of community do you want? How much moderation? My opinion is as little as possible. Clearly we won't all agree on every opinion, but we don't need to be treated as school children either. Thanks for letting me post.....your stock went up a little bit in my eyes |
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Post by Mur on Jan 10, 2012 13:22:09 GMT -7
Cy stock that is  |
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Post by Toon on Jan 10, 2012 13:27:48 GMT -7
It's not often that I find myself in agreement with the Bren, but this is one of those rare ocassions. What were his great crimes? Providing you with a forum to post your nonsense (or in the case of the case of the Foreskin) your lies? While it may be true he often foresaked rational analisys for credulity in this highly strange field who can fault him? My feeling is that he was betrayed by members in whom he placed trust- members who never served the interests of truth and discovery as he did. Ufology always attracts both the bravest and also the worst. Cylrellus Von Schcklgruber and the Foreskin represent the latter.
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Post by Mur on Jan 10, 2012 13:55:09 GMT -7
Where is Bren posting?
Has anyone heard from him?
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 10, 2012 14:06:59 GMT -7
Cy stock that is You're welcome. One of the issues I'd like you to share with us Mur is what I observed. My observation: prior to the break up of the Admins/mods, Bren had as I understand it a "death in the family" that atop health issues I'm thinking...he did indeed seem to be absent for a protracted length of time and the other Admins & mods filled the void. I don't believe he informed anyone clearly what was happening in his personal life. Priorities have a funny way of doing that to a person's time and applied energy. IN his absence: the relentless sock attacks/fun and games drove the residing Admins & mods to take unusual measures, including under the table situational exploration (Dood). This combined to cause chaos among a confused membership. Escalation in measures, reactions, and confusion and an inability to understand Brens absence initiated the events leading up to the break. Repeated requests for Bren went unanswered.... Bren being overwhelmed (guessing here) by a flood of emails, pms you name it came back in the midst of his personal problems to utter chaos. He made an emergency decision to shut everyone off/out till he had time, energy, and desire to sort out what had happened and what the problem actually was....hense Admins & mods with no powers. This compounded the problem. Now the above could be debated about whether that decision was made by Bren or by his representative, because at this point I strongly suspect that somewhere in this mix maybe Bren had a proxy step in to his uniform to assist and maybe even take the reins while he may have returned to his personal problems. I strongly suspect, a proxy was involved here who spoke as Bren and may have acted in his stead as a helper at the very least and that was NOT Greatwaller nor I or any of the post-break mods/admins. This would explain the lack of communication in many respects. And a few other things like our friend Archistratego. I'm not saying this is a fact...only that I suspect this may be a piece of the story.my point here is that if the broader community is to heal and recover from this calamity, then the issue of sock-puppeting attacks for fun or otherwise, and the allowing of factionalized IC to instigate fun and games should be part of what is addressed here. In any mediation, the mediator suggests or guides at times but it is the members who essentially resolve their own issues by having a reaonable environment and encouragement to speak their peace even when it is disagreeable to others...I realize this is a hot topic with alot of history but if ANY community in the net world is going to survive what the federal umbrella culture is setting up to do, then everyone needs to pull together and learn the hot buttons that set this off and how to transcend that which causes WE THE PEOPLE to fight and engage in offense & conflict with each other... There are many enemys one might have in the world and the universe but never should they be one's own family. This is not the only matter I think the omf members should include in the discussion...but it is one that can be shared on now as part of reconvening as a community. If one can see the problem, discuss the problem then one can explore how it might be handled differently...obviously Mur would like to continue as part of the community...so how might this issue be achieved? Mur? what are your thoughts toward improvment here? I say this because requests for help and attention to problems just prior to the flood of proboards reporting went unanswered. And more was happening it seemed behind the scene than proboards voiding a few annoying posts. |
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 10, 2012 14:07:20 GMT -7
mutual improvement
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 10, 2012 14:25:55 GMT -7
It's not often that I find myself in agreement with the Bren, but this is one of those rare ocassions. What were his great crimes? Providing you with a forum to post your nonsense (or in the case of the case of the Foreskin) your lies? While it may be true he often foresaked rational analisys for credulity in this highly strange field who can fault him? My feeling is that he was betrayed by members in whom he placed trust- members who never served the interests of truth and discovery as he did. Ufology always attracts both the bravest and also the worst. Cylrellus Von Schcklgruber and the Foreskin represent the latter. Welcome to Compass Morainn, Toon. I think that confusion and lack of communication in clear and open ways contributes to many of the problems that people have anywhere they reside. Fault is like Offense in that when one has it in excess or insists on it being a means to recompense then you have created Conflict. It is the impetus for being destructive in any problem situation rather than being Constructive. Do you agree? |
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 10, 2012 14:33:02 GMT -7
I do think though, that he was so overwhelmed by it all... well, let's just say that in this regard, his silence speaks volumes. -------------- Cy, we were typing at the same time but I have also wondered if Bren was using a proxy. Good that you brought that up! It's pure speculation, of course, but that possibility is there nonetheless. agreed. Something to be mindful of, perhaps. Archistratego is welcome here and there was never any real offense involved in our exchanges folks...just tandem initiation of your presence, participation, and introspection here. This will achieve only what your best efforts allow it to achieve. I'd suggest you make his sacrifices worth the effort it was for his outreach. Cy |
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 10, 2012 14:38:30 GMT -7
Cy stock that is You're welcome. One of the issues I'd like you to share with us Mur is what I observed. My observation: prior to the break up of the Admins/mods, Bren had as I understand it a "death in the family" that atop health issues I'm thinking...he did indeed seem to be absent for a protracted length of time and the other Admins & mods filled the void. I don't believe he informed anyone clearly what was happening in his personal life. Priorities have a funny way of doing that to a person's time and applied energy. IN his absence: the relentless sock attacks/fun and games drove the residing Admins & mods to take unusual measures, including under the table situational exploration (Dood). This combined to cause chaos among a confused membership. Escalation in measures, reactions, and confusion and an inability to understand Brens absence initiated the events leading up to the break. Repeated requests for Bren went unanswered.... Bren being overwhelmed (guessing here) by a flood of emails, pms you name it came back in the midst of his personal problems to utter chaos. He made an emergency decision to shut everyone off/out till he had time, energy, and desire to sort out what had happened and what the problem actually was....hense Admins & mods with no powers. This compounded the problem. Now the above could be debated about whether that decision was made by Bren or by his representative, because at this point I strongly suspect that somewhere in this mix maybe Bren had a proxy step in to his uniform to assist and maybe even take the reins while he may have returned to his personal problems. I strongly suspect, a proxy was involved here who spoke as Bren and may have acted in his stead as a helper at the very least and that was NOT Greatwaller nor I or any of the post-break mods/admins. This would explain the lack of communication in many respects. And a few other things like our friend Archistratego. I'm not saying this is a fact...only that I suspect this may be a piece of the story.my point here is that if the broader community is to heal and recover from this calamity, then the issue of sock-puppeting attacks for fun or otherwise, and the allowing of factionalized IC to instigate fun and games should be part of what is addressed here. In any mediation, the mediator suggests or guides at times but it is the members who essentially resolve their own issues by having a reaonable environment and encouragement to speak their peace even when it is disagreeable to others...I realize this is a hot topic with alot of history but if ANY community in the net world is going to survive what the federal umbrella culture is setting up to do, then everyone needs to pull together and learn the hot buttons that set this off and how to transcend that which causes WE THE PEOPLE to fight and engage in offense & conflict with each other... There are many enemys one might have in the world and the universe but never should they be one's own family. This is not the only matter I think the omf members should include in the discussion...but it is one that can be shared on now as part of reconvening as a community. If one can see the problem, discuss the problem then one can explore how it might be handled differently...obviously Mur would like to continue as part of the community...so how might this issue be achieved? Mur? what are your thoughts toward improvment here? I say this because requests for help and attention to problems just prior to the flood of proboards reporting went unanswered. And more was happening it seemed behind the scene than proboards voiding a few annoying posts. FROM AMKON Today 05:05 PM #11938 mur View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries Visit Homepage View Articles Terminated -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Join Date:Jun 2008 Posts:8,086Re: Notice! You are hereby terminated by the Borg I'm slightly under the weather...sinus infection....drugs make me drowsy. Plus I'm at work. Thinking isn't my strong suit at the moment....lol End Quote. Fair enough, Mur. Cy |
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Post by a99 on Jan 10, 2012 14:49:05 GMT -7
I do have one idea that I would like to share here (it’s Bren’s idea, btw) and that is that Administrators and Mods should not have their own hidden forum from regular members to discuss matters having to do with the daily monitoring and operation of the board. Only the staff should be allowed to comment in it but it should still be completely transparent and open for all to view.
A hidden staff forum allows for too many oportunities for the staff to form their own tight clique where instead of them each voicing their own opinion on things, they are more apt to be pressured into going along with the prevailing status quo on any decision that has to be made on a daily basis. When it's like that, opinions are based on whichever way the wind blows and it should not be like that AT ALL.
All members should be able to view the staff’s decision-making process on any given issue. And even though there will always be dissenting views on those decisions by members of the board, at least they will have been able to have some kind of understanding on why those decisions were made.
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Post by earthman on Jan 10, 2012 14:57:38 GMT -7
Howdy all. ;D Thanks again Cy for yellin at me on skype and letting me know about this place. Felt lost for a few days, and damn angry. And seeing all you here and hearing what everyone has said has helped out alot. All of you really ment alot to me and the lose of that hit me pretty hard. I have had a couple of heart attacks in 08 and this whole mess has caused chest pains since. You all are family and this mess has tore at all of us. OM ment a lot to all of us or we would not be here. So, what to we do now? We have heard from about everybody but one, Bren. HE does owe us atleast that much. How about it Bren? Show your face and tell the family what happened.
earthman
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Post by Mur on Jan 10, 2012 15:15:11 GMT -7
So I might have had 10-15 sock accts at omf over the few years.....but Idoubt that was the reason omf declined and/or failed.
Maybe Bren got overwhelmed, but firing the people he trusted made the situation worse.
Those that were fired also lost trust.
Any way...what's done is done...we can't change the past.
Moving forward the question for me is moderation.
Too much is anti-disclosure
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Post by a99 on Jan 10, 2012 15:18:42 GMT -7
Hi earthman! I'm glad you showed up!
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 10, 2012 15:23:00 GMT -7
Howdy all. ;D Thanks again Cy for yellin at me on skype and letting me know about this place. Felt lost for a few days, and damn angry. And seeing all you here and hearing what everyone has said has helped out alot. All of you really ment alot to me and the lose of that hit me pretty hard. I have had a couple of heart attacks in 08 and this whole mess has caused chest pains since. You all are family and this mess has tore at all of us. OM ment a lot to all of us or we would not be here. So, what to we do now? We have heard from about everybody but one, Bren. HE does owe us atleast that much. How about it Bren? Show your face and tell the family what happened. earthman Welcome to Compass Morainn, earthman. I was happy to have found you. There are a couple of participants in this whom have not yet been heard....yes Bren is one of them. We have time. I think one thing too we might be cognizant is that with what happened at OMF before the suspension and in the course of the immediate aftermath that sometimes the damage people do to each other intentionally or otherwise is very difficult to reconcile. It may take a bit for some to return...if they are so willing. All things are possible. The door is open. Cy |
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Post by mdonnall2002 on Jan 10, 2012 15:24:41 GMT -7
I don't believe assigning blame is required....many had a hand in the failure. There are many issues that contributed to the demise. The question going forward is what kind of community do you want? How much moderation? My opinion is as little as possible.Clearly we won't all agree on every opinion, but we don't need to be treated as school children either. Thanks for letting me post.....your stock went up a little bit in my eyes Welcome home, Mur.... What would constitute a breach of your 'Little as possible' approach? Can you give some examples where you would draw the lines for the sake of 'proper' discourse? Clearly, total freedom leads to Anarchy and total control leads to suppression. Perhaps you could lay out some examples of what would be a breechable offense? |
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