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Post by Mur on Jan 11, 2012 14:22:22 GMT -7
Thanks Jake...I feel the same way about you for the most part.
That being said we have differing opinions about the importance of omf, and the cases we work on there.
Yes...you are an omf insider privy to more than myself.
I'd be willing to consider your info...but you generally only allude to it...and there aren't any facts.
Now facts aren't everything, but they are still important.
I maintain that you are operating on opinion based on facts undisclosed. Please disclose.
But even where there are a multitude of facts, you maintain you know better.
Like RT....the facts clearly show source A was a hoax with no IC connections.
You disagree....saying you know better....but you don't back it up either.
So at this point....you are offering an opinion about the importance of omf....with no facts.
So what are the facts that establish omf as something more than an internet ufo chat room.
Why was omf important and to whom?
I suspect I already know your answer....but please do indulge the audience.
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Post by mdonnall2002 on Jan 11, 2012 15:01:09 GMT -7
BTW all, in case you haven't seen it yet.... Archistrategos posted a lengthly piece last night at Amkon; click hereFore; as well as others, he writes to you. Strange that you would be mindful of his postings... Not too strange.... And yes, "gibberish'' - at times..... But, as Jake indicates, he is fond of you, sort of. Maybe he will venture out of his comfort zone and visit us here? |
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Post by earthman on Jan 11, 2012 15:12:34 GMT -7
What always got me on the Source A mess was the secondairy comformation i had on the UN meetings. Ya know Stevensville really shook up things and i wouldnt dought that they were discussing it. Dick Criswell was helping me on the ufo discovery project and was talking to contact for me and was told they were meeting on this subject. Somehow RT, Sause a, must have either heard of meetings or who knows. But there was meetings. I'm not defending him in any way, don't like valor stealing.
Somehow, the momentem died off. It was going in our favor for a while it seemed. Then the internet got flooded with CGI fakes so much, hell utube get on average between 1000 to 2000 video's of ufo's a day. How do we deal with that? Most are crap, some are interesting but probibly CGI, and maybe one out of all of them per day might be worth looking into. Crazy stuff ufology, Crazy stuff indeed. Got a' love it....
And Mur, thanks for coming, your a part of the family too.. As all of you are. It's killed me to see the tearing of the family for the past year or so now. And the last month has been madness. I know this place is the start of healing and talkin it all out.. Ya know we need Dove to stick her nose in. She was one of the leaders in post back home. Loved to read her stuff. lol.
earthman
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Post by Jake Reason on Jan 11, 2012 15:16:53 GMT -7
Well Mur, ask toon. OMF was many things (chapters). And among them; 1 was that it was being used as a petri dish by the Intelligence Community. We had something unique. None of the administrative moderators (admins) were part of the Intelligence Community (IC). We are all civilians and had never been IC or military servants in our lives. We were not encumbered by any oaths to any flag, or special clearances. We were all middle-aged with numerous complimenting experiences. And we were also conveniently "wet behind the ears" when it came to the insider world of Ufology. Add it all up, (from an IC perspective), we were a perfect & unexpected small group of average men who could be of use to the IC's interest and involvement in Ufology. And perfect timing too! At the advent of high-speed internet. A potential historical quagmire for the PtB, IC and MIC. And so when we started hosting Serpo, which was one of theirs, they saw an opportunity. And so... OMF was fed. We didn't know why the stories landed at OMF, nor were we ever truly explained by anyone that it was more than a coincidence. Nor were we told (by anyone) what to do, or how to moderate. Our own philosophy worked just fine for them as it was. Unlike another well known forum, we were never told when to jump, by the MIC. You know, the one that Springs to say, "How high, sir? Oh ok sir, we'll steer that discussion to conclude and label it a Hoax in our esteemed judgment. And they will never know, you asked us to" wink-wink. No, we were independent people. We had our mission statement and we stuck to it. We didn't have any encumbrances, we were free citizens. And as such there was no way that any one could paste a label on us, or accuse us as being part of or sympathetic to one IC faction or another. And this too, was helpful to IC sectors. Open Minds Forum was an international public media, run and operated by common citizens with an interest in flying saucers, "cowboys and aliens" and things that go 'bump' in the night. And we decorated our forum to be a more mature and gentlemanly environment. Thus attracting a middle-aged crowd. And some "pretty smart cookies" too! It's no coincidence that the biggest, most bizarre, googly-eyed stories in ufology  ended up being served on our Forum. Meanwhile, in the back-office, we co-admins were just as surprised and dumbfounded as everyone else. We knew that the stories being headlined couldn't be all true as reported, by all those anonymous spooks, wherever they may have come from. But we knew there was a purpose, even though we continually tried to guess and sleuth what the various purposes may be, just like everyone else. And it was our philosophy that whatever was going on and whoever may be behind it, and for whatever cause, we felt it was worthy, for some unknown purpose, that the stories should be given a platform, and let them air out. And let the reader discern in their own capacity. If you can comprehend this, you can more fully understand OpenMindsForum. |
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Post by mur on Jan 11, 2012 16:16:11 GMT -7
Well Mur, ask toon. OMF was many things (chapters). And among them; 1 was that it was being used as a petri dish by the Intelligence Community. That's an opinon based on hearsay. From the IC perspective, we were a perfect & unexpected small group of average people who could be of use to the IC's interest and involvement in Ufology. And so when we started hosting Serpo, which was one of theirs, they saw an opportunity. And so... OMF was fed. Any facts to back this? Or is that an opinion? But let's assume for the sake of discussion you are correct......Why was the membership not informed they were being used in IC (CIA or similar) tests? OMF was fed what exactly.....disinfo and hoaxes. Perhaps.......but I don't believe there was any IC involvement that is any different from any other chatroom. But any facts you have contrary will be appreciated. We didn't know why the stories landed at OMF, nor were we ever truly explained by anyone that it was more than a coincidence. Nor were told what to do, or how to moderate. Our own philosophy worked just fine for them as it was. So you just assumed? Unlike another well known forum, we were never told when to jump, by the MIC. You know, the one that Springs to say, "How high, sir? What did they say to you Jake.....and who was it? No we were out own people. We had our mission statement and we stuck to it. We didn't have any encumbrances, we were free citizens. And as such there was no way that any one could paste a label on us, or accuse us as being part of or sympathetic to one IC faction or another. Well it's good you were protecting us Open Minds Forum was an international public media, run and operated by common citizens with an interest in flying saucers, "cowboys and aliens" and things that go 'bump' in the night. And we decorated our forum to be a more mature and gentlemanly environment. Thus attracting a middle-aged crowd. You say media, I say chatroom It's no coincidence that the biggest, most bizarre, googly-eyed stories in ufology ended up being served on our Forum. Meanwhile, in the back-office, we co-admins were just as surprised and dumbfounded as everyone else. We knew that the stories being headlined couldn't be all true as reported, by all those anonymous spooks, wherever they may have come from. So you were complicit in hoaxing? I'm shocked But we knew there was a purpose, even though we continually tried to guess and sleuth what that purpose was, just like everyone else. And it was out philosophy that whatever was going on and whoever may be behind it, and for whatever cause, we felt it was worthy, for some unknown purpose, that the stories should be given a platform, and let them air out. If you can comprehend this, you can understand OpenMindsForum So you were just guessing about IC? Is that really all you got? |
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Post by mur on Jan 11, 2012 16:17:16 GMT -7
And Mur, thanks for coming, your a part of the family too.. As all of you are. It's killed me to see the tearing of the family for the past year or so now. And the last month has been madness. earthman Thanks bro! |
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Post by Jake Reason on Jan 11, 2012 16:23:35 GMT -7
I maintain that you are operating on opinion based on facts undisclosed. Please disclose. But even where there are a multitude of facts, you maintain you know better. Like RT....the facts clearly show source A was a hoax with no IC connections. You disagree....saying you know better....but you don't back it up either. I backed it up more than any other person. There was a thread on the forum exclusively entitled for that purpose. It took weeks of work, explaining it all in extensive detail. I've also explained why you believe your view of the saga, and how it was achieved. Most people do not know how their thoughts are formed. And the vast majority are oblivious to the fact, that there are people who are trained to form other peoples thoughts by design. Implemented in a manner that would cause people to think their beliefs were formed on their own. You are right, Mur. As intended. So go on your way. Nothing here. |
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 11, 2012 16:40:50 GMT -7
Mur you had your way...you achieved what you wanted and now have the blood on your hands. You destroyed the people involved and wrecked someones family atop it all...you have your recompense.....what's so dissatisfying about that recompense? I'm puzzled over the obsession.
You hammer on Jake about dishonesty and yet you commit murder and that's ok. What was that about wanting tomatoes from your neighbors garden and any level of conduct is acceptable when it comes time for dinner?
You claim to hold a man of deep Principle, Ron Paul, in high esteem, yet you muddy that esteem with conduct unbecoming.
You insist on treating communication like a capital crime and then commit every imaginable offense yourself around it in the name of the Truth you hold so dear.
Sometimes I wonder about you my friend.
Cy
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Post by mdonnall2002 on Jan 11, 2012 17:13:00 GMT -7
Mur you had your way...you achieved what you wanted and now have the blood on your hands. You destroyed the people involved and wrecked someones family atop it all...you have your recompense.....what's so dissatisfying about that recompense? I'm puzzled over the obsession. You hammer on Jake about dishonesty and yet you commit murder and that's ok. What was that about wanting tomatoes from your neighbors garden and any level of conduct is acceptable when it comes time for dinner? You claim to hold a man of deep Principle, Ron Paul, in high esteem, yet you muddy that esteem with conduct unbecoming.
You insist on treating communication like a capital crime and then commit every imaginable offense yourself around it in the name of the Truth you hold so dear. Sometimes I wonder about you my friend.Cy Well said...I was just thinking this recently to myself. I am glad he has been allowed to come home, to his real family here, but sometimes I really have to shake my head in utter confusion. Always the wayward brother? Don't take this the wrong way, please. I tried to get you back at OM a couple times, (not like you were really, gone anyway) because I do feel that everyone should have a voice to be heard. And, who knows, maybe you were right all along. Your free spirited approach to life may bring you limitless joy and perspective, but it also has consequence to those around you. I'll pray for your to see this as well because I do appreciate your insights many times... |
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Post by mur on Jan 11, 2012 17:46:48 GMT -7
I maintain that you are operating on opinion based on facts undisclosed. Please disclose. But even where there are a multitude of facts, you maintain you know better. Like RT....the facts clearly show source A was a hoax with no IC connections. You disagree....saying you know better....but you don't back it up either. I backed it up more than any other person. There was a thread on the forum exclusively entitled for that purpose. It took weeks of work, explaining it all in extensive detail. I've also explained why you believe your view of the saga, and how it was achieved. Most people do not know how their thoughts are formed. And the vast majority are oblivious to the fact, that there are people who are trained to form other peoples thoughts by design. Implemented in a manner that would cause people to think their beliefs were formed on their own. You are right, Mur. As intended. So go on your way. Nothing here. You have your opinion, I have mine. I can make all sorts of claims I can't back up either. But I don't,....because I don't have the need to prove I'm right. I've made plenty of mistakes. How about you Jake...have you ever made a mistake? Have you ever been wrong about anything in your eyes? Please share....because as long as we have been acquaintances or even friends....I don't remember any such admissions |
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nibs
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Post by nibs on Jan 11, 2012 18:00:12 GMT -7
How about you Jake...have you ever made a mistake? Have you ever been wrong about anything in your eyes? Please share....because as long as we have been acquaintances or even friends....I don't remember any such admissions That simply isn't true Mur. He made the mistake of letting BBQ smoke get up into his neighbors nose -eyes or whatever lol and that's one mistake no one would ever forget .. heh lol poor jake. Thanks for your response Jake. Gonna let it soak in a bit. Fore- I'm sincerely sorry to you if My situation on ScarRZ thread put you in a bad position in regards to dealing with Bren. Never the intent at all. Wow what you wrote puts things into perspective though. I've gotta re- read the last couple of pages- see if I got it right. I gave Dove this web address last night- of course she already had it ;D imagine that.. lol. She should chime in here hopefully. |
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Post by a99 on Jan 11, 2012 18:06:06 GMT -7
Mur,
Can't you just agree to disagree with Jake on this old worn out issue that's way past its shelf life and shake hands and become friends again?
Is this issue worth the cost of a former valued friendship with someone who also shares the same interests you do -- that being those topics in Ufology?
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Post by mur on Jan 11, 2012 18:09:50 GMT -7
Mur you had your way...you achieved what you wanted and now have the blood on your hands. You destroyed the people involved and wrecked someones family atop it all...you have your recompense.....what's so dissatisfying about that recompense? I'm puzzled over the obsession. You hammer on Jake about dishonesty and yet you commit murder and that's ok. What was that about wanting tomatoes from your neighbors garden and any level of conduct is acceptable when it comes time for dinner? You claim to hold a man of deep Principle, Ron Paul, in high esteem, yet you muddy that esteem with conduct unbecoming. You insist on treating communication like a capital crime and then commit every imaginable offense yourself around it in the name of the Truth you hold so dear. Sometimes I wonder about you my friend. Cy Complete and utter nonsense...I have no blood on my hands. It wasn't my way, the truth has a way of rising to the top. Theilmann is responsible for his own actions. I spoke to him on more than one occasion. He was offered several different options....he choose the path that was taken. The people and family involved were Richards responsibility, not mine. Still...he had a way out.....he made his choice. Murder? What the hell are you smoking? I did not put the uniform on him...he put it on all by himself. He told the ufo stories in exchange for a bar tab....not me. He lie to the ufol community. He lied to the Naval Order. He dishonored those at the Naval Order....not me. In fact the Naval Order thanked me for exposing Theilmann to them. I like Ron Paul...a lot....and my conduct was for truth. Maybe your MO is to lie and cover up....but it isn't mine and I'm sure as hell it isn't Ron Paul's Lies are not communication. They are called lies. There is no law against lying...I don't treat it as a capital offense....but there are laws against stolen valor. Now I have never served in the military...but close family members have. Yes I reported him...he got a warning....hardly capital punishment. I've committed no offenses...either morally or legally. What if one of your oathkeepers was in fact a hoaxer who never served.....would you keep it to yourself? Would you allow the scam to continue? Would you turn a blind eye to this hoaxer scamming your friends and possibly a whole movement? Your not thinking Cy....your still nursing your wounded pride over it. Maybe you are just like Jake and can't ever admit to a mistake publicly. But it's outrageous to accuse me of murder.....and disgusting. Almost libelous....if you catch my drift. You better edit that |
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Post by mur on Jan 11, 2012 18:12:59 GMT -7
Mur you had your way...you achieved what you wanted and now have the blood on your hands. You destroyed the people involved and wrecked someones family atop it all...you have your recompense.....what's so dissatisfying about that recompense? I'm puzzled over the obsession. You hammer on Jake about dishonesty and yet you commit murder and that's ok. What was that about wanting tomatoes from your neighbors garden and any level of conduct is acceptable when it comes time for dinner? You claim to hold a man of deep Principle, Ron Paul, in high esteem, yet you muddy that esteem with conduct unbecoming.
You insist on treating communication like a capital crime and then commit every imaginable offense yourself around it in the name of the Truth you hold so dear. Sometimes I wonder about you my friend.Cy Well said...I was just thinking this recently to myself. I am glad he has been allowed to come home, to his real family here, but sometimes I really have to shake my head in utter confusion. Always the wayward brother? Don't take this the wrong way, please. I tried to get you back at OM a couple times, (not like you were really, gone anyway) because I do feel that everyone should have a voice to be heard. And, who knows, maybe you were right all along. Your free spirited approach to life may bring you limitless joy and perspective, but it also has consequence to those around you. I'll pray for your to see this as well because I do appreciate your insights many times... You prefer the beautiful lie as opposed to the ugly truth? I was just the messenger...Theilmann is the one who caused the destruction....not me. I just reported it. I'm kinda like Julian Assange....lol |
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Post by mur on Jan 11, 2012 18:15:43 GMT -7
How about you Jake...have you ever made a mistake? Have you ever been wrong about anything in your eyes? Please share....because as long as we have been acquaintances or even friends....I don't remember any such admissions That simply isn't true Mur. He made the mistake of letting BBQ smoke get up into his neighbors nose -eyes or whatever lol and that's one mistake no one would ever forget .. heh lol poor jake. Thanks for your response Jake. Gonna let it soak in a bit. hahaha...I remember that......but at the time...Jake didn't realize it was the BBQ smoke.....but he should not of attacked Jake over it. |
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ended up being served on our Forum.
