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Post by dan on Jan 25, 2012 14:38:58 GMT -7
Cy,
I gather that you may not understand the core story and how it relates to Matthew 1. My main point is that Disclosure cannot be a piecemeal proposition. Many ufologists, who think they want disclosure, only want baby steps. Baby steps were never an option, here, IMHO. Similarly, there is no such thing as being half pregnant. It's a package deal. No returnsies.
This has nothing to do with the moral character of the PtB. It's only about divine omniscience/omnipotence. While the Cat was away, the mice did play.... Now we put away our childish things.
------------
Yes, I would like to get back on a philosophy forum to discuss the CohTT, but after a few days, I am bound to cut to the chase, and then they pull the plug, just like before.
The CohTT is all about immaterialism. There is no other way to make it stick. The eggheads tread very warily in its precincts. They have no strong motivation to disturb our slumber of materialism. They have no dog in that hunt. They understand that the stakes are incalculable, even if only unconsciously. A fool rushes in, where angels fear to tread. Has it ever been otherwise?
Only at the GFC does one sense the raw force of the game that is being engaged. Everyone else is too polite.
(cont.)
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Post by skaizlimit on Jan 26, 2012 0:45:05 GMT -7
Dan, I just read from page six back through page one ... although at a hurried clip ... while listening to enchanting ancient Christian liturgical music and prayer chants. To me, it all kind of syncs into place.
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Post by dan on Jan 26, 2012 7:01:09 GMT -7
Skai,
And my not so humble claim is that it is the only thing out there that does sync... that does cohere, and it doesn't take a genius to both understand it, and to understand why it continues to exist in splendid isolation.
And I'll wager that, at best, you may grasp 10% of the BPWH.
I woke up this morning thinking that my last five years now boils down to me vs Cy, right here on CM. Is there a message here? I can only think of two possible messages.
Two other things transpired this morning...... Your post, and the suspension of the second incarnation of OMF. That leaves TOP. Ivo has twice asked me to come over there, but, so far, I'm even less enthralled with TOP, than I ever was with OMF. And that's not saying a whole lot.
What are my alternatives........
1.) Start a blog on one of the philosophy forums
2.) Start my own forum, back on my BPW blog site
3.) Stay right here, with Cy.
#3 is my default choice, for now, obviously. While I'm here, I think I ought to make an effort to chat up my hostess. No?
And, Skai, perhaps you could help me out with #3. No? For one thing, I suspect you may be closer in temperament to Cy than am I, for what that might be worth.
For the sake of disclosure, we should tell her that you also have a connection with Ron, but of a somewhat different nature, and a bit more sporadic, up to this point.
I'm not going to twist either of your arms, in this regard. However, I can't afford, especially at this point, to leave any stones unturned.
---------------
Actually, each of us is independent minded, even to the point of being loners, but we also share an 'evangelical' streak.... We don't mind expressing our strong opinions to strangers, etc.
Now, back to my favorite, and, perhaps, only topic..... the BPWH......
Why don't I hang it up? Why do I remain a true believer? Not being so has never truly occurred to me, not in the last 34 years, not since the time when the BPWH was still just a gleam in my eye.
How, then, do I rationalize my evangelical failure? That's not difficult..... It has to do with the very radical, all or nothing nature of the BPWH, combined with its personal quality.
But, no, I've not fully rationalized why it has not even come close to going viral, in the dozen or more years that it has been out on the Internet. Well, there is only the catch-all rationale that everything must be in its proper time and place, which, in this case, is not yet.
(cont.)
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Post by mdonnall2002 on Jan 26, 2012 8:04:08 GMT -7
Yes, I’ve still been around, paying attention, waiting to add what little I can. You are not just speaking to yourself in this venue.
You mention that poetry does not seem to have a place in the laboratory as we know it, yet, as I sit here in my obscurity, even I can contemplate the how different life would be if it were a requirement. Science has the tenacity or should I say reputation of being cold and logical most times whereas poetry allows us to connect/reconnect with that which lies buried within those softly secret spaces closer to the divine source. Are we any closer to the voice than at this time? I can only think of hanging on the edge of deaths embrace when we are closer.
Does the divine source approach us closer through emotion of an inner voice or through logical concordance within our minds?
Much like digging a well, hacking at the earth, plunging steel within her boughs, to secure and bring forth the requirement for our physical bodies – that voice we seek takes on similar qualities. It is generally is not just at our disposal nor on demand until we have sought it out. We cannot think it out – It must be felt. Doesn’t ‘feeling’ have a greater effect on our consciousness vs. ‘thinking’?
Your trip with the brethren still captures my mind. ‘To boldly go where no one has gone before?’ Which are you, Dan, the Captain or the fool’s errand? They have treated lesser men in the same fashion and unless you are ready to provide the ‘shock and awe’ required – this Endeavor will certainly bestow the Scarlet Letter already fashioned residing in the center drawer. All in - or is it the big tease?
Where’s poor Dylan when you need him?
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Post by dan on Jan 26, 2012 8:59:39 GMT -7
MD02,
Thanks for checking in. Don't know where Dylan might be. I never got a good reading on him, other than his seeming young and cantankerous. If you wish to track him down, be my guest. My patience with his contrariness will continue to have limits, however.
To wit, over the years, I've gotten more than my fair share of contrariness, from my sister, Louise. Only now is it occurring to me that this contrariness is mainly a fear reaction. Well, no, this has occurred to me, before, but there is also the factor of a deeper familiarity, segregated on the far side of our birth amnesia. This also has a lot to do with the fact that we are time-sharing our souls. That notion does induce a great deal of fear.... Fear of annihilation.
IOW, heaven is very far from being a family reunion, as many suppose. The family is all 10^10 of us. The wedding feast in the sky is not just sitting around the dining room table. It's more like Grand Central, on steroids. There are plenty of compensations, but they're even more difficult for us to fathom. What will happen to our independence of mind, our free thinking? Hmmm.... Again, there will be compensations, but don't expect to be able to extrapolate from down here. It will be a new ballgame.... count on it.
With all this discontinuity, what, if anything, will survive? There will be the best possible degree of survival, whatever the heck that may turn out to be. Again, very little point in extrapolating.
The familiarity factor, in the above fear, leads to a kind of love-hate dynamic, which can be very difficult to deal with, both from within and from without. How did I overcome the fear factor? Not real sure. It seemed to be the case from day 1, 34 years ago, and it may have had something to do with the DNS experience, ten years before that. In retrospect, there was a distinct complementarity.
---------------
Back to the grindstone.......
Of course, besides the personal ontological issues, like the shared Soul, there is the metaphysical hurdle of immaterialism. And, no, I don't have a good conceptual take on it. The best I've been able to do, in thirty years, is to draw a comparison between the ontology of numbers and atoms, and that is still quite a stretch.
Atoms are a key part of the metabolic package that goes with mortality. The necessary space-time finitude of Creation, in its turn, necessitates the space-time finitude of our our lives. Metabolism, with all its compensations, is the key component of that finitude.
But that doesn't explain how it works. Logical necessity and logical possibility need not be cut from the same cloth. How are atoms even possible? Sure, we all have metabolic based dreams, but seldom do we directly confront the atomism and related entropies, therein.
For instance, how do those little ET buggers manage to float through our bedroom walls? Well there is a partial 'physical' explanation, but it may be barking up the wrong tree.....
The easy answer is to just turn that question around.....
What prevents you and me from walking through our own walls? If you think there is an easy explanation, then, clearly, you have not even taken high school physics, wherein you are taught that atoms are almost entirely empty. And that is just the beginning of the problem.
But here's the funny thing, I'm just remembering/realizing......
The reason that we can't walk through walls is not unrelated to the fact of our shared souls. Hey, not too dumb....
The common cause has everything to do with the unfathomable mystery of being and identity. Which, in its turn, has everything to do with the mystery of consciousness. Again, these thoughts are just now occurring.
Now, it should then follow that the shared mystery of being and mind may come closest to our grasp, in the related mystery of numbers, slippery little devils though they are!
The quantum gives us fair warning that mind, number and atom are inextricably linked. Like life, they are a mystery wrapped in an enigma!
What even the best mathematicians tend to deny is the overwhelming organicity of their subject. The simplest demonstration is the Mandelbrot set, which is not unrelated to the 'simpler' enigma of the most famous/notorious of mathematical 'identities'..... e^i*pi = -1. Wherein the ubiquitous 'e' stands for Euler, the discoverer of the number and this formula.
IMHO, every single one of these enigmas is wrapped up in every other one. It all has to do with the fabric of the world, and, from an eschatological perspective, how that fabric can and will be unravelled, in the fullness of time.
Is this the path to nihilism? Well, it is the path to the Apocatastasis, which shares some of the attributes of non-being.
Now, mathematicians seldom stop to smell the daisies. Simple 'explanations' are given for Euler's identity, even in high school algebra. But are these actually explanations or are they simply restatements of the enigma. That it is the latter case, should be pretty obvious, even to the uninitiated, or, perhaps, especially to those. Suffer the children to grasp the mystery of life. We come from heaven, trailing clouds of glory. And so shall we return.
1:20---------
Science is an exercise in divide and conquer. We naive theists end up being relegated to our God of the Gaps. But, in truth, it is an enormous shell-game. Where this game lies closest to the surface is in the mind-brain problem and in the inescapable organicity of mathematics. One is a reflection of the other, and the quantum is the third leg of this mystery.
It was my reflection on what I used to call the 'quantum aperture' that led me, initially and reluctantly, to what seemed to be the dead-end of immaterialism.
The organicity of the world is not a reflection of the quantum, rather, it is the other way around. A better understanding of the intricacy of this ontology will, hopefully, shed more light on the internal structure of the global enigma.
But let us keep in mind that the ultimate mystery, undoubtedly, lies in the unfathomable depths of the phenomenon we sometimes refer to as love. Is there going to be a formula for love? That is about the least likely of all possible outcomes. If only we can better appreciate that infinite depth, that would, likely, solve all the worlds problems...when our minds become just a little better aligned with our hearts. Is this asking too much? Well, it is asking a lot.
So, have I come any closer to an understanding of atoms? Well, yes, to an appreciation of the holographic, holistic, microcosmic aspect of atoms.
There are two high school experiments that bring us into direct contact with the reality of atoms..... the Miliken oil drop and the oleic acid drop experiments, which allow us to determine Avogadro's number. What is the ontic status of these simple experiments?
There is another, perhaps more impressive, thought experiment, which is to reflect upon the redness of a heated piece of metal. Without the idea of the photon, the metal should appear blue. And this is not unrelated to the redness of the sunset.
(cont.)
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Post by Jake Reason on Jan 26, 2012 12:31:31 GMT -7
Jake manages to get me all riled up, and then he ups and disappears. The animals in the zoo got to me. It's Sabbatical time. I see you've written a fair bit since my last post. Too much to reply to all... Yes, I'm a post-tri rapturist, like 'Jesus' said. But reserve the 'mid-trib' safe haven exile is most likely something I'll be tasked to help with. I won't be fighting any PtB. That's Caesar's ordeal, he can have what he wants. I'm a pre-millenialist however, as opposed to post-mill you speculated. KC on earth, before any eschaton. Oh and, I'm an old earther. G-d is far too creatively wise to stoop to hocus pocus games. Those tricks are for kids. I also believe in a new heaven & new earth. Makes perfect sense to me. The cosmos obviously has a purpose. The entire Earth epoch being merely the incubation period of souls? And ahhh..... It wouldn't surprise me if the eschaton were much further in the future than dinosaurs were in the past. Besides, what's a billion of our years compared to eternity. Just another day? Close enough for horseshoes. But then I think we'll see transfigurations before that. All part of the progression. Disclosure? I don't see the dominoes falling until at least 2017, or perhaps closer to 2020. The PtB are way too busy boxing it out. And if they don't bring the internet down and reset it, some of them will loose everything they worked on for centuries. So there's a strong possibility we'll see something like that happen before Disclosure. As well as wars and rumours of wars. And all signs point to the Visitors being held back too. Prime Directive? I think they got a firm message in Enoch & Noah's day. And so I can take a sabbatical for awhile. We live on a big beautiful blue ... Gorgeous! Time to take another look around. I'll be in touch and check in to see what you're doing on the net. |
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 26, 2012 12:50:06 GMT -7
If you are looking for Dylan, last known location was New York. Cy
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Post by Cyrellys on Jan 26, 2012 12:51:07 GMT -7
Jake manages to get me all riled up, and then he ups and disappears. The animals in the zoo got to me. It's Sabbatical time. I see you've written a fair bit since my last post. Too much to reply to all... Yes, I'm a post-tri rapturist, like 'Jesus' said. But reserve the 'mid-trib' safe haven exile is most likely something I'll be tasked to help with. I won't be fighting any PtB. That's Caesar's ordeal, he can have what he wants. I'm a pre-millenialist however, as opposed to post-mill you speculated. KC on earth, before any eschaton. Oh and, I'm an old earther. G-d is far too creatively wise to stoop to hocus pocus games. Those tricks are for kids. I also believe in a new heaven & new earth. Makes perfect sense to me. The cosmos obviously has a purpose. The entire Earth epoch being merely the incubation period of souls? And ahhh..... It wouldn't surprise me if the eschaton were much further in the future than dinosaurs were in the past. Besides, what's a billion of our years compared to eternity. Just another day? Close enough for horseshoes. But then I think we'll see transfigurations before that. All part of the progression. Disclosure? I don't see the dominoes falling until at least 2017, or perhaps closer to 2020. The PtB are way too busy boxing it out. And if they don't bring the internet down and reset it, some of them will loose everything they worked on for centuries. So there's a strong possibility we'll see something like that happen before Disclosure. As well as wars and rumours of wars. And all signs point to the Visitors being held back too. Prime Directive? I think they got a firm message in Enoch & Noah's day. And so I can take a sabbatical for awhile. We live on a big beautiful blue ... Gorgeous! Time to take another look around. I'll be in touch and check in to see what you're doing on the net. You might not want to miss this one, Jake. Cy |
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Post by dan on Jan 26, 2012 13:13:29 GMT -7
Jake, Yes, this is our primary point of contention...... This is the utterly unique aspect of Christianity.... that it is explicitly Anthropocentric, just as it is Christocentric. Why then does Creation appear to be so much otherwise? Well, it has to do with the Grand Deception and the Great Apostasy, see 2 Thess. 2:11, etc. Why does God allow us to be so deceived? This is much more than just a matter of human depravity. Whence came that 'depravity'? It first raised its ugly head in the Garden of Eden, in the form of the Serpent. Hey, who let the Serpent in?! Who banished Satan to Earth? Couldn't God deal with Satan, just on his own? Why did he have to enlist humanity to finally defeat Satan, and then not give us any of the credit? Hardly seems fair, now does it? Apo-stasis is just to stand apart from. But, wait, what was Creation, if it was not meant to place us Creatures apart from the Creator? Suppose that we hadn't been tempted by the Serpent? We'd still be stuck on some little island in the Euphrates, kinda like the Green Zone in Baghdad, with its own little PX. Would they have pampers? But there is more, a lot more....... After Adam and Eve, came Noah and then Abraham. It seems like God was having a lot of difficulty getting Creation right. There were a lot of failed experiments. And then I especially love the one about the Three Magi, driving their camels right up to Herod's palace...... Hey, Herod, ol' buddy, where's that messiah kid at, anyway?! Nothing like asking directions, eh what??!! I guess this must have been before stealth technology and the GPS. Felix Culpa! And then along came U235 and the WMD..... It's not just like letting your kids play with matches..... It's more like handing them the box, and then pointing to the can of kerosene.... Kaboom.... Ooops..... Do I sound a bit cynical? That is not actually my intent. My point is that there is a very simple method in all of this seeming 'madness'...... What is this method? Trial and error? Seems like it...... School of hard knocks? That might be a bit closer..... Ok, so Creation turns out to be our best possible challenge course. So, is God our drill Sergeant? Or is he more like our Mother, reluctantly untying the apron stings? It must be somewhere between those two extremes. One thing is clear..... God does not mind playing with fire. Creation is nothing, if it's not about brinksmanship. And once again, we are led to the Brink. How many brinks are there supposed to be? There are plenty of signs pointing to this being the last Brink. No? Well, if this is not the Mother of All Brinks (MoAB), then I'd sure hate to see the Big One! One very big sign of the MoAB is the MoAPS. In the BPW, we can't possibly have one without the other. It would be like a carriage without a horse. How many times does God have to roll these dice, until we figure out that the dice are loaded, teleologically speaking. And who is the Alpha and Omega, if it's not the J-man? If we are unwilling to stand on those shoulders, how will we ever see over the hedgerow? Jose, can you see? On a clear day, we ought to be able to see Eternity. Yes, Jake's ET version of the OEH, should be a reductio of that hypothesis. It also happens to be the Vatican version, bless both of their hearts. But it is not the Evangelical version of the OEH, which may be found on the RtB website...... www.reasons.org/catalog/lights-sky-and-little-green-men (2002) This book promotes the UTH over the ETH. Here is the latest (2007) RtB take on UFO's..... This Evangelical/Vatican split between the UTH and the ETH, respectively, is a non-trivial matter when it comes to cosmic politics. Frankly, Jake has always dodged this issue. It's all about Christocentricity. The Vatican is Papocentric. I would like to engage Skai and Jake on this question. Clearly, the RtB is heavily into CYA, when it comes to UFO's! IOW, they are clueless in the Endtimes. It is a tough issue. It is not for the ontologically naive. 8pm---------- There is a simple way to understand what is going on with RtB. The subtitle of this organization is.... Integrating Science and Faith. Its raison-d-être is to evangelize scientists. Clearly, it would be cutting off its nose, if it were to advocate the YEH. It's that simple, my friends. It is all about the real-politique of modernism. Truth is not the first priority, and certainly not coherence. . |
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Post by skaizlimit on Jan 26, 2012 21:52:21 GMT -7
First, on the question of psychiatric qualifications required to ask questions of a theological nature, it makes no sense. What does psychiatry have to do with theology? If a person cannot or will not answer a theological question, the problem is not with the one asking but with the one not engaging the question. All nature asks questions, and my guess is that Heaven asks them at times also. Responding to these questions is often known as science, whether in the material domain or in the immaterial domain.
Secondly, the question about Christocentricity and papocentricity should be an interesting and long haul issue. Allow me, Dan, to throw a zinger here. From my perspective, both Christocentricity and papocentricity (but not "papolatry") are one and the same thing. The key as I see it is in what St Paul says about the faithful being members of the same body. There are several definitions of "Body of Christ", and each of these and all of them reach into some sublime areas of reflection. Substantial religious differences on these things have been underway for centuries and treated by some of the most brilliant minds in history. One can also consider "the least of my people - centricity", demonstrated eight centuries ago by St Francis of Assisi. This stuff does not seem like a brief foray but holds some rewards for those who dig in.
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Post by Jake Reason on Jan 27, 2012 0:03:36 GMT -7
Jake, Yes, Jake's ET version of the OEH, should be a reductio of that hypothesis. It also happens to be the Vatican version, bless both of their hearts. But it is not the Evangelical version of the OEH, which may be found on the RtB website...... The only community I know that elevates the 'New Earth' position to that of a "Hypothesis", as if by that word gives it more credence; is the American influenced Evangelicals. Bless their hearts. But hey, I was once Plymouth Brethren. Been there, whoa Nelly! You've come a long way baby. But lo and behold, the heavens have declared His majesty. "The Hubble Telescope must have been a Satanic plot, eh?", said one literalist to another. Nah, that don't wash. Who invented the telescope anyway, Galileo or Lucy? My B-I-B-L-E says, G-d did. Yes unfortunately a few theologies must be adjusted. It turns out the Sun does not revolve around the earth. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Oh how man tries so desperately to contain G-d in a form he can comprehend. My B-I-B-L-E says, such is folly. My... this is not bad. Two thumbs up! It's a good start. A+ on the grade 11 exam. Gotta start from some base, and work from there. Well I've hardly "dodged this issue" Dan. There is at least a couple hundred posts of mine on OMF that deal expressly with the ETH/UTH question. But then OMF is off-line now.... oops. The Vatican? Yes, there are still Gems in its midst, but Angel Michael's Nemesis took over quite awhile ago. It's a catch 22. Go with the ETH... and your damned. Go with the UTH... and you're damned. So what are we to do? ... Pick a side? That can't fly. After all, Y'shua/'Jesus' demonstrated both. Oh ya, people keep forgetting that. But wait.... G-d invented the ancient cosmos. Someone tell him he got it wrong. That crazy Zeus. Ken Ham is still kicking that can. Talk about arrogance. Or maybe just color blind. Oh well, he means well, I think? Anyway and all that.... The RtB are on the right track. Catch up or be square, love child. The kids are much brighter than they seem. Baby steps, Ellie |
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Post by Jake Reason on Jan 27, 2012 0:28:14 GMT -7
Good points Skai, (if I may call you by that name).
I spent a couple days in the hill top medieval town of Assisi. Whimsical town to explore. He was one of those rare God-sends.
Well, got to get back to my sabbatical.
I'm singing in the rain
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Post by dan on Jan 27, 2012 8:49:56 GMT -7
Skai and Jake, Thanks for holding my hand, in this somewhat lonely 'outpost'. And the same goes for you, too, Cy. With science and spirit, God allows us to have our cake and eat it, too. Most of us would not have thought this possible, but God is here to prove our pessimism to be unfounded. It is a great compliment to the Creator that we so love his Creation that we wish it to continue forever. Do we have to choose between Heaven and Earth? Between the temporal and the Eternal? Once again, God is here to confound our limited imaginations. We can have both, even though it appears that Earth is finite. And, even better, we won't need rocketships in order to realize the Eternal aspect of Creation. No, we won't have to flee from one dying star to the next. No, we won't have to engage in star wars, in order to fulfill the unlimited potential of our spirits. Creation is an eternal, essential aspect of Heaven. I have tried to make this fundamental ontology of the BPW perfectly clear, but clearly have fallen short. From our mortal perspective, Creation is temporal. From God's perspective, it is Eternal. That perspective will ultimately be our perspective. And, look ma, no rocketships....! Merely a Noah's Ark or two..... Why then did God bother to create the illusion of time, along with all the limitations that it seems to impose upon us lowly mortals? There is an aspect of poetry is this notion. It has to do with the dynamics of love. The basic point of art is to transcend the seeming limitations of the medium. Think of Leonardo. Think of Michaelangelo. The sublime is found in transcendence..... spirit over matter. Artists of all stripes, demonstrate this everyday. We are all artists of love. Our medium is the flesh. The gnostics suppose that matter is a deceitful illusion...... the playground of Satan. Christ came here with just one mission... to prove the gnostics wrong. He glorified our limits, like none other. That glory gave rise to the scientific impulse which is our crowning achievement. Did Jesus ever curse the darkness? No, he illumined the world with the light of a thousand suns. We still must wear our dark glasses, so as not to be blinded. In science we see the triumph of the spirit, of mind over matter. Science lights our path to transcendence. It is our final impetus. We only need to view it, sub specie Aeternitas. That is the view that I was pointing to, yesterday....... It is the view of coherence, holism and relationalism. We see it everywhere, and everywhere it just seems to elude our grasp. We see it particularly in that most peculiar and provocative Euler identity.... e^i*pi = -1, that lies at the heart of the matter, of both mathematics and quantum relativistic wave theory. It is the reason why we don't walk through walls, as our visitors are won't to do. It is the surpassing mystery, that appears in every algebra textbook. It's the flower in the crannied wall of science. A tiny crack where the light shines through. It is one of the plethora of signposts that we pass every day, barely noticing. Allow me to leave Euler twisting in the wind, as I take up Skai's challenge of Papo- and Christo- centricity....... How do we thread this needle..... split this difference? Well, is not the Pope a place holder for the Second Coming? Could Luther have done otherwise? Yes, and I doubt it. Jesus is the irresistible force that can be contained neither by the Vatican, nor by the Bible. Those respective limitations have given rise to the artistry of transcendence, as surely as did the Cross, itself. The very worst of the Popes was still a lamp unto the world, as is every translation of every bible. If anyone ever doubts that Jesus is risen, then look no further..... Yes, if Peter hadn't existed, we would have had to invent the Pope. God only had to give us a little nudge. Every Pope, despite, perhaps because of, their worst frailties, has pointed to the Kingdom Come...... How will Jesus rule, pray tell? Is there a devil in those details? Of course, there is. Will we do better, under the glare and shadow of the Eschaton? Of course, we will. The residue of our temporal dimension/dementia will carry us through to that other side. The Rapture will be our Great Attractor, our tractor-beam. The Telos will inform our every word, to this End. There will be Bose-condensation of our Fermionic spirits, as we come into our final alignment. Jesus will unravel our twisted hearts. We only have to drop a stitch. It's not rocket science. Excuse, please, a slight excursus into a detail that has always intrigued me...... Having to do with the ability to walk, or not walk, through walls. This has much to do with the illusion that we like to call 'matter'. A more refined metaphysician might think of this as talking dirty.......! The exclusion principle has to do with the identity of electrons. And this is a mathematical identity, not just physical, as if there might be a difference. It is these electrostatic forces, along with the exclusion principle, that shape our world. In our world there may be an infinity of forces, along with the types of fields and charges that give rise to these plethora of forces, and this is just in our own little singular universe, infinite though it may be. Now, according to string theory, there is a superimposed 'landscape' of multiverses, each with slightly different conditions and laws of physics. One of these alternate universes could be sitting no further from us than the nose on our face, and probably a lot closer. The only interaction between these two worlds might be a commonly shared force of gravity that, somehow, 'leaks' through, into the extra dimensions. A visitor from another dimension would walk right through our walls, leaving only a psychic trace, and, perhaps, just a smidgen of gravity. Hardly enough to knock our socks off, unless we are unusually sensitive. Forget about physical detectors. 3:30--------- The above interdimensionality argument might be taken as an argument against metaphysics, in favor of physics. But that need not be the case. Rather, it might be seen as an argument that the very notion of 'physical' is a relative and subjective notion. What is physical to you, need not be physical to me. But this is some distance removed from the idea of mind over matter, in its most general form. It is only a baby-step toward immaterialism. -------------- I've just finished a lengthy NYT article on the status of the standoff between Israel and Iran. Peace seems hardly to be an option. Would an attack be a trigger for Armageddon, now that Russia has less at stake in the Mideast? Would our vital interests not be threatened, nonetheless? Would this prospect not provide an additional incentive for Disclosure..... bring a greater sense of urgency to that discussion/decision? If we are facing a downward spiral, in any case, might this not be a tipping point? A PoNR? Talk about cosmic Brinksmanship..... --------------- Nonetheless, I remain uneasy with the above, quasi-physical explanation of the Many-mansions model of Creation, compartmented by non-interacting physics modules. If the ultimate reality is a mental construct, and mind is a universal 'force', then how could that force obviously give rise to these compartments? It is true that our minds often seem compartmented, particularly in the case of a multiple personality disorder, or with altered states, notions that figure prominently in the BPWH. Mind is the universal solvent, the Aqua Regia, of every reality. It is also the lingua Franca. Compartments would not be so easily relegated to purely physical delineations. The universality of mathematics is a case in point. Using mathematics as such a delineator seems suspect, even though there is a perfectly sound mathematical argument for the ghostly qualities of the neutrinos, passing through the Earth, by the bushel, with barely a scratch. I can't rightly say why, for instance, color and electric charges cannot see or communicate with each other. And what is it that makes electric charges identical, even when the associated particles are not? Does the underlying mathematics explain the identity? After all, quark charges come in units of 1/3 of electron charges, both being fundamental, and yet they both respond to the same field. It seems like there must be a singular source. As with our putative singular and universal soul? Once again we run aground at the point of universal being and identity. Ultimately there can be only one reality, one Alpha, one Omega. Can mind and love be compartmented in any ultimate and arbitrary sense? Can your morality be invisible to mine? There are such obvious mysteries...... How do different charges decide or know which fields to respond to? Are there name tags? Are there gang or tribal colors? What is the ontological distinction between charges and fields? Which came first? Aren't I just full of questions? It is alleged to be the Higgs field that gives rise to mass. What is the Higgs charge? This is supposed to be in analogy with solid state physics. If you wonder why I'm confused, then try out the Higgs mechanism. Tell me that there is no slight of hand. If you're ok with Higgs, then try Nambu..... It only gets better. Here is another explanation...... Well, I'm beginning to get a picture, here. As the photon acquires a pseudo-mass, inside the superconductor, the E&M field becomes short-range, which excludes the magnetic field. But not sure why the mass. Nambu's old articles are still subscription only. Here is a more general picture. Not to mention this, critical dimension. (cont.) |
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Post by dan on Jan 28, 2012 8:22:52 GMT -7
Skai, Christo- and Papo- centricity are the same thing? Yes, to a good Catholic, they would be. And, yes, it was the Pax Romano, the Holy Roman Empire, that allowed Europe to pull itself out of its Medieval funk, into its Renaissance. The Muslim Caliphates provided a similar impetus for Islam. But Islam never managed to escape the tyranny of the tribal Imams. The reasons are many. Well, maybe not...... I blame it on the Koran. Ironically, it was the Reformation that brought Christendom to the brink of scriptural fundamentalism, the fatal trap of Islam. There is a degree to which the Vatican overshadowed the Spirit and the risen Christ. It was the unleashing of these forces that allowed the Reformation to transcend mere bibliolatry. There is a strong sense in which the Enlightenment may be seen as just a slightly deviant charismatic revival, revivals, which even the Vatican, in its heyday, had to accommodate, as in the various monastic movements, early in the last millennium. Puritans differed very little from the Franciscans. The Protestant work ethic was in full bloom in the Monastaries, centuries before Luther. And isn't it ironic, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, that the Puritans fled from Holland to the colonies to escape religious freedom. So, finally, the Papacy gives up its Ghost, just in time for the Second Coming! Yes, the Enlightenment was a charismatic movement, which just couldn't restrain itself from throwing out the Bambino with the bathwater. It accepted, with relish, Descartes' judgment of Solomon, that decapitated the body of Christ, now taking up from Skai. Thus was the stillbirth of the Grand Deception and the Great Apostasy. But isn't the Pope supposed to have been the Antichrist/Deceiver? Certainly, according to Luther. But it was Martin, himself, who set the stage for the historical AC/DC. We can understand how great is the resistance of the secular/scientific Establishment to accepting their true role in these latter days. We can well appreciate their antipathy to acknowledging their own Apostasy. (Skai....... or, praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition....) Did God have to make the Spirit of Truth be such a bitter pill for both the Scientific and Biblical literalists? No, because I will also be seen as the Comforter..... once the dust has settled. And, truth be known, the four horsemen of the Apostasy are truly just the sentries at the Gate to the whole truth. They don't want to let in just any Tom, Dick or Harry. They're holding the gate open for the SoT. As is Pope Benedict, bless his heart. And maybe it's also about Mahmoud, Ehud, Megiddo and Ya'juj wa-Ma'juj. It's all about the tipping point...... Maybe God does want us to get whiff of grapeshot, before sending Gog and Magog. It now occurs to me that the throwing down of the 'renegades', at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, is just the return of the Nephilim to the Earth, or the Noah's Ark remnant returning to Eden, along with the Serpent. . |
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Post by skaizlimit on Jan 28, 2012 9:22:54 GMT -7
"Ora et Labora", aka "Pray as if everything depends on God and work as if everything depends on you" (St Benedict, c. 480AD).
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